Written by Seriously, right now! I’m speaking to any “Goblins” that are out there farming. This is going to be a short, but hopefully fiesty post. If you are farming your ore, herbs, leather, elementals, or pretty much anything else – YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!! Ok, now let’s talk about why
Why farming is a bad idea
Farming your own mats is only”worth” it in 2 situations. The first is if you are powerleveling a profession and you’ve hit a roadblock. No mats, whatsoever. I encountered this recently with alchemy. I needed to get out there and farm some primals because I hadn’t seen any netherbloom in about 3 weeks. Seriously, not a single one. Finally getting my DK up to lvl 75 and getting alchemy up to 525 has been quite profitable for me and will continue to be, but it wouldn’t have happened without a quick and painful farming session.
The second time it makes sense to farm is when everyone else is powerleveling their profession. This pretty much only happens for a short time at the beginning of a new expansion. Once more than 50% of the players on your server have their professions maxed, your profit curve will have peaked and it’s all downhill from there. Purchasing your mats from the AH will otherwise always be the better option. Period.
The problem with farming mats is that a) they are limited by current market value and b) they can be turned into something else. Logic will always dictate the price of crafted materials in the following manner: if it is useful, someone will buy it. If someone will buy it, it is reasonable to expect them to pay more than the current cost of the required materials. If they don’t like that, their only other options are to gather the materials themselves and try and find someone to craft it for them (which will either require a bunch of time, or they will need to buy from the AH, which might not even save them much gold) or they need to level the profession themselves, learn the recipe and craft it themselves. Neither one of those options will frequently be appealing to the average player. Thus, useful crafted goods will always hold more value than their mats.
The reason why farming isn’t worth the effort is because of time. Crafting or AH flipping or anything you can do with your mailbox/bank/AH window and trade chat will always take less time than going out into the world to farm something. Unless Blizzard adds some sort of node next to the mailbox, it juts isn’t worth venturing off. I’m sure there will be people that will disagree with me, and if you do, by all means let’s hear your side of it.
But, Kathroman, what if there aren’t any [insert mat that I commonly use in my big "money-making" strategy] available? Isn’t it a good idea to go out and farm some of them then? Nope. You should be doing something else instead. First of all, if you find yourself in this situation frequently, I would suggest stockpiling mats at good prices so you don’t have as many issues. Second, I guarantee you that there is at least 1 other way you can make gold that will still be better than farming. There is no 1 thing that is so exceptionally more profitable than everything else that makes it worth abandoning all else (and your sanity, to boot) in order to keep doing it. There will be something else in another market. I promise you. Feel free to throw some examples out there, I have my “idea-whacking stick”(TM pending) ready and I love a good challenge. Otherwise, just stop farming. Unless you enjoy it, but don’t be misled by false pretenses about it being the most profitable use of your time.
-Kathroman
p.s. This post might have sounded a bit “ranty”, but I didn’t want to go through all the trouble of offering some specific examples, so I thought I’d just blow the whole thing up and see where the pieces landed.
p.p.s The TUJ server analysis project I mentioned a few posts back is still moving forward, just working out some kinks with my spreadsheet. I have it set up, but I had to use a workaround to get the data into it, so I have a nice spreadsheet with 3 week old Zuluhed data – not useful. Once I can get it figured out, I will throw together an analysis of US-Aerie Peak-(A), as promised.
Or #3: I’ve been staring at the same auction house so long my eyes are bleeding. Ore has no hope dropping anytime soon and and I’d rather spend 20 or 30 minutes of leisurely mining in Deepholm than buy one more 54g stack of Obsidium Ore.
Not everything is about GPH.
Sure it is
As I mentioned in the post, farming for fun (or for a distraction) and “farming for profit” aren’t the same thing. From a profit perspective, farming is never your best option.
As far as GPH, the most basic forms of comparison we have as humans are Quantity and Quality. I would venture to say that most people in the gold-making community would place a higher value on someone being able to acquire 500k in 3 months than someone getting 1mil over a year. Given the same time parameters, the first person will be “better” at making gold. They might not have as much, but they are obviously better at it, right? GPH measures your efficiency, and it is the most effective way of calculating the Quality of your gold-making efforts. So yeah, I would say that everything IS about GPH. You didn’t actually offer an alternative…what else is there? I’m curious.
or maybe #4 you’re out and about questing/achievement hunting/rep grinding & you happen to be in an area that is a good spot for ‘very scarce item a’ that you can utilise to make lots more gold
I was rep grinding Wintersaber & got lots of rugged & thick leather or the Cenarion Expedition & got extra sanguine hibiscus or coilfang armaments. It was worth completing the final dungeon even after I hit the exalted rep, just to make a further 200-500g.
My next grind is Cenarion Circle – Silithus & Essence of Air springs to mind – I can be farming the essences & the Twilight Encrypted Texts at the same time.
I will give you that, but I would like to add that this can be highly situational. For example, you need to be really careful not to underestimate any additional effort required. The moment you go just a little bit beyond your objective to grab that extra node that just lit up on your mini-map, there is a minute calculation involved. It might not seem like a big deal, but from a purely technical perspective, you’ve just made a decision that has at least some impact on your bottom line.
Killing 2 birds with one stone is great, but killing a second bird with another stone just because it was lying right next to your foot is still extra effort. That second bird better be worth it – that’s all I’m saying.
I will also point out that you didn’t go out there with the purpose of acquiring those items, so you didn’t really “farm” them, per se. I know a bunch of you guys are international, but I remember an interesting “statistic” (air quotes, because I don’t actually know if it’s true) from years ago about it actually not being worth it for Bill Gates (of Microsoft, just in case…) to stop to pick up a $100 bill. Just something to think about.
Yes, I agree, it is highly situational but for those of us who don’t focus completely on the gph, it’s still viable. I’m a pretty slow player when it comes to killing stuff, I find it difficult to concentrate on those mass pulls or chain pulls for any length of time so popping off to skin something or pick flowers helps me get thru the rep grind. When I can see valuable stuff piling up in my bags or mailbox as a ‘side effect’ of the grind, it gives me the will power to keep going
I agree with you in much of what you say & I wouldn’t recommend farming as an overall gold making strategy but I also would say ‘never, ever’ farm stuff.
The only thing I have farmed in the last two months were a few stacks of Heartblossom to transmute inferno rubies. I just didnt want to pay 100 gold a stack for Heartblossom and 30 minutes later I had like 5 stacks and some ore to boot.
Farming is incredibly boring to me. I would rather pay my wife or someone else to do it for me.
I hate farming so much that in your situation, I would have either paid the 100g anyways (provided it still led to a profit), or most likely just not bothered with inferno ruby transmutes at that time. There are plenty of other markets that don’t require any farming. Either that or go lvl an alt. The AH isn’t going anywhere anytime soon, right?
I have to admit it… I don’t mind farming. My favorite used to be farming adamantite in Nagrand… Now I buy most of my mats… but sometimes I do go back out and farm for awhile. Yes, as you said, this would be described now as farming as a distraction or for some fun… I’m glad I don’t dislike it as much as you obviously do… this way when something runs out at the AH, I do have the option of jumping on my mount and enjoying a bit of leisurely farming.
I do like the mindlessness of flying around mining once in a while. So I target TBC zones. Mining Fel Iron and Adamantite ore still sells well enough that it’s not as much of a GPH loss and due to the extreme low supplies now they still sell for a decent chunk. On the RNG that Khorium nodes spawn I might break even on my time. But it’s not more money than working the AH or trade channel.
Minor nitpick about your use of the “the TUJ” – avoid redundant acronyms. Its already “The Undermine Journal”
Thanks for the heads up, but based on this (from the first paragraph):
“The degree to which there is a need to avoid them depends on one’s balance point of prescriptivism (ideas about how language should be used) versus descriptivism (the realities of how natural language is used). In writing intended to persuade, impress, or avoid criticism, the writer is wise to avoid them.”
I’m going to keep on just the same. Based on conversations that I have had with people I would say that the usage ratio of TUJ to “the undermine journal” has to be somewhere around 90% – 10%. TUJ is a goblinese word now, in my book. So is goblinese, btw.
Neologism. Creative license, right? You have to give me something…lol.
I’m afraid that goblins don’t have to ‘give’ you anything, though I could ‘sell’ you someting if the price is right….
Fair enough. I then reserve the right to lowball you for it. Or try to acquire it by “alternative” means.
I concur. I can’t stand farming just for farming sake. The only time I use my gathering professions is when I’m out doing something else – always skin a few extra crocs while doing BH dailies, skin a few lions while doing ZA/ZG heroics, etc. But what bothers me is that on my herbalist there doesn’t seem to be any “on the way” places to pick flowers any more. Used to be herb nodes in all the heroic dungeons, so herbing was halfway worth it as a profession. Now I just used herbing to level my alchemy (mainly just to make the trinket – he’s a healer and it’s a damn good healing trinket) and that’s about it. Are there any “on the way” places to pick herbs while doing something else more valuable with your time these days??
I agree 100%. Back in Wrath, the trip out and about for Tournament dailies brought all the mats that I needed to make enough flasks for not only myself but the entire raid. There’s nowhere like that in Cataclysm that I’ve seen.
The thing with purely AH based activities is that you are more exposed to risk. Say if you buy a stack of 20 raw widgets for 8g per unit. You then turn them into 20 crafted widgets and list them at 10g per unit your projected profit is 40g (less AH fees). However the risk is that our farmer comes along with the same 20 crafted widgets that were put together from farming then undercuts your widgets to the point that in order to compete you are making insignificant gold for your time or even a loss. If folk are willing to consistently work harder than you then the market in widgets might not swing back in your favour.
The thing I’m shooting at is that farming is risk free and requires little thought. All farming requires is your time and everything is profit (less AH fees). If you don’t have the head for business or the time to keep your finger on the pulse of the AH/game trends then farming is likely a better option.
First of all, let’s be clear: farming isn’t risk free, it’s just less risky. Second, I think that’s a bit of a cop-out. I don’t think you need to have a head for business or your finger on the pulse in order to make gold in this game. In fact, I have come across many people that don’t seem all that bright that have done well for themselves, gold-wise.
The reasons you suggested for farming are they very reasons why bots and gold-sellers farm, but that also means that those same reasons make it even less worthwhile for the “casual” farmer. if the only investment is your time, you will lose to a bot every time.
As far as AH risk goes, I would suggest checking out some of the suggestions in this thread in order to get a feel for some of the general trends and strategies – after that, it’s just a question of expansion.
Farming on the server I am on is cost beneficial on a gold per hour basis.
I’m leveling up a skinner/leatherworker. That may seem counterintuitive but having researched the JC, BS and LW markets on the undermine journal prior to selecting a crafting profession I found the JC/BS professions on this server do not look profitable as other servers where I have toons. 1) Ore costs are very high, 2) Gem prices are unbelievably low even for inferno ruby cuts and meta’s (120g and under). 3) BS crafted item prices are at or below costs possibly as a result of crafters leveling up.
The UMJ information I looked at indicated that there was a strong market for crafted LW items at high prices especially the PVP sets. ( at levels 2-2.5 times other servers.) In addition, there is a plethora of raw materials at decent prices from players leveling up at all levels.
With only 300g gold on hand, my level 57 toon is required to farm the mats to get through the pretty demanding raw materials requirements for leveling LW. As an example: 410 Thick leather+410 Rugged Leathers are required to level from 200-300. To buy these materials at the AH would cost about 4000g. Farming the mats nets me about 600g/hour (120 Yetis per hour) and gets me leveled through that range. That’s about 6-1/2 hours of farming.
I’m also selling pets, vendoring everything and running instances for gold and drops. However, until you hit higher levels of crafting, farming remains a cost beneficial use of time on a gold/hour basis.
IMHO
I agree with you about profession leveling, and losing profits by waiting to get them maxed. The specific examples I provided of when I think it is worthwhile to farm were a)When you are trying to powerlevel a profession, and b) when EVERYONE else is powerleveling their professions ie. At the beginning of an expansion, or if Blizzard were to introduce a new crafting profession at some point.
So, I definitely think you made the right decision there, and commend you on having the foresight to do your research first. As far as not being able to “buy” your way through the middle of the prof, I would recommend you check out the latest Consortium Contest, as there were some interesting ideas for how to get yourself a nice little nest egg there.
Out of curiosity, was that lvl 57 toon a fresh DK? If so, I have mentioned several times about how I did a simple Thunder Bluff vendor run on my own DK reroll and ended up with 1000k after about 2 – 3 days. Something to consider…
Thanks for stopping by.